In Defense of Frank Shamrock (Sort of)

Good post John.  I’ll toss in my thoughts here.

I’m surprised by how many of the pundits are saying this is the fight of the year. It was a very good fight. But I really feel the absolute electric atmosphere of the crowd in San Jose (may be the best MMA crowd in the US time and again) made it a lot more exciting than it actually was. I’d be willing to bet that the Liddell-Silva fight, which also went 3 rounds, show a similar amount of strikes actually landed. Cung’s array of kicks was great, but they still count for a point. Please don’t take this as me saying it was a bad fight. It was great! But FOY? I kinda hope not with 9 months to go.  The first two rounds were solid with neither ever having the other in any sort of trouble.  The third round was excellent and made the fight!  But I really feel the electricity of the crowd made this seem better than it was.  Watching it a couple times has reinforced my feeling.  It was a decent fight up until the 3rd round. 

My favorite part of the fight was after all the showmanship (I’d call it showboating) by Frank for the first two rounds, it was the look of frustration on his face when he was standing up from getting his leg swept so beautifully out from under him. That was priceless to see after all the smack he talked, including the “sleep” sign he made in the first round.

At the same time, I think the excessive showmanship really did hurt the fight.  After executing that great leg sweep, Cung casually walked away, allowing Frank to turn his back, slowly get up and walk away from him.  Its a fight, not a sparring session.  I’d much rather seen Cung blast him the moment he so casually got up.

I said it before the fight here and elsewhere, that I completely figured that Frank would be true to his word and stay standing. Its been 5 years since we last saw Frank actively go for takedowns in an MMA fight, against a vastly overmatched Bryan Pardoe. Various sites seemed stunned that this submission expert didn’t take the fight to the ground. Newsflash. Frank Shamrock was a submission expert 10 years ago!!!

In the last 9 years, he has beaten Elvis Sinosic by decision ( a guy fighters such as Bisping, Calhoon, and Sakara among others have finished),submitted bodybuilder Bryan Pardoe, TKO’d an aging Cesar Gracie in his MMA debut, lost by DQ to Renzo Gracie in a fight he was losing, and RNC’d Phil Baroni after rocking him. And after Baroni got beat for the 4th time in 6 fights last month, maybe that result was not as good as I thought. We love to claim how guys from the early days of the UFC/Pride have just not evolved. Guys like Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, and Mark Coleman, right down the line to even Matt Hughes and Carlos Newton. Maybe even Frank Shamrock has not completely evolved as well. Yes, he was one of the very first who really showed an all around game. But his results over the last 9 years just do not back up the hype that either he or his legion of supporters claim.

The fact that he will not have his ACL reconstructed (as rumored) and thus be able to use it as a crutch is just further proof of his arrogance. Its a shame, because I used to be such a huge Frank Shamrock fan, but I’m so tired of his act and just loved watching him get beat. He is a great fighter, I honestly believe that. But he is simply not the MMA god that he and his supporters make him out to still be. At least not anymore.

On to Cung Le. Each time I watch him fight, I become a bigger and bigger fan. My criticisms of Shamrock are not meant to take away from Le’s performance. He never fell into any of Frank’s traps and simply took him apart. He was rocked a few times, especially with a minute left in the 3rd round, but recovered very nicely and responded in kind. I think CUng has a bright future in MMA with his age possibly being the determining factor holding him back.

But let’s not get ahead of ourselves and fall into the rhetoric that Gary Shaw would have us believe. Cung is nowhere near the top of the foodchain in the middleweight class. Besides Anderson Silva being head and shoulders above him IMO, I have little doubt that Dan Henderson would do a very nice job of getting a Greco clinch on Le and securing a takedown. Same with a Matt Lindland. I’d certainly give Nate Marquardt, Yushim Okami, and Kaz Misaki a legitimate chance to take him down into his control. If you’d like to play MMA math, it took Cung into round 3 to take out Tony Fryklund, a guy that was finished in one round by Silva, Salaverry, Goulet, and Thomas Denny. Heck, Sammy Morgan took Cung into the 3rd round. I don’t need to go over his level. So while I think Cung is dynamite, we need to remember the level of his MMA competition up until this point.  Now if the rumored fight against Kaz Misaki takes place in the summer, that will earn him a lot of points and a place in the rankings.

All good points. While I say that the fight was a FOTY candidate, I did say that it was an “early” candidate at that. I really hope too that this fight doesn’t end up being considered come Decemeber. It just so happens that this fight has pretty much been the best so far.

The atmosphere was definitely amazing. There wasn’t a better place to hold the fight than San Jose.

As far as Cung’s ranking goes, I don’t think anyone out there seriously believes that he’s a top ten middleweight just yet. He obviously has the skills standing but once he’s matched up against a semi-decent wrestler with submissions, he’s going to be exposed. He has a lot of work to do if he wants the hardcore fans to see past Gary Shaw’s hype.

Are you sure a rematch would end with a decision in Le’s favor?  Watching the fight again I have the same opinion I had Saturday night, I think Shamrock won rounds 1 and 3.  The only time either fighter was really hurt (other than the Shamrock’s dislocated wrist) was when Shamrock had Le rocked in the 3rd round.  Le could fight a better fight in a rematch if he would just stop trying to land his spin kicks.  Every time he tried to land a spinning kick Shamrock made him pay.  That’s how Shamrock did the majority of his damage in the 1st round.

what no one understands is that the last thing that frank cares about is a belt. he went in there and almost put away a striker of le’s calibur. to him that is more than a belt. he wants to test imself more than anything, nothing can take away from frank as a legendary fighter. even if he goes on aloosing streak like ken in my mind he will still be a better fighter than ken ever was.

Le only tried a spin kick once for what I remember?  And that’s when Frank took him down, after that first spin kick, his corner told him to stop with the fancy stuff and he did.  So… I guess you’re right, every time he tried a spin kick (once) Frank made him pay (once with a semi takedown attempt).

great fight from two warriors. I used to be a bigger fan of frank’s, but all his smack-talking was better suited against baroni.
cung deserved to win the fight. he was the better man that night (better combos, lethal side kick, spinning back fist,etc..) the only knock against the fight would be that cung’s ground game wasn’t tested enough (frank’s fault), something that future opponents will be happy to take advantage of, i’m sure.

I really dont like Frank Shamrock’s approach to his whole showmanship bullshit, but after watching this fight lastnight, Le got lucky. Even with a broken arm Shamrock had almost KOd Cung Le. I saw where his arm broke, then was like ‘Ok… so he just wont use it the rest of the fight?’ Then he started blasting away with it when Le was against the cage. Lot of hear showed by Shamrock, but fight ended like I thought it would, Le hurting him bad.

Watch the fight again Albert.  He tries it multiple time.

“Would it have been smarter to take Le down? Of course. He could have submitted him in seconds most likely. Is there a reason why Shamrock didn’t take him down? Who knows. Maybe only Frank does.”

Cung Le is a former CA junior college state wrestling champion. No way can Frank take him down. Everyone knows Cung is a superior wrestler. So, how can you submit a guy on the ground when you can’t get him there? You talk like Frank has the ability to take Cung down anytime, which is ridiculous.

When Frank got foot-swept the 1st time, he invited Cung to come down and fight…meaning, he wants to fight on the ground. But the problem is, he can’t get Cung to the ground. He has no choice, but to fight a standup fight.

I’m tired of hearing all these excuses. Cung was the better man that night, so give him credit for defeating Frank “fare and square”.

i wasn’t making any excuses for frank.  I just think it would’ve been in cung’s best interest to spend some time on the ground against someone of frank’s caliber.

you’re right. frank’s inability to impose his game on cung was the reason the fight ended the way it did. i was just trying not to bash frank like a lot of youtubers do.
but you gotta admit that future oppoents will be gunning for cung’s back and the mount after seeing this fight.

but cung did win this win fair and square. i was waiting for round 4 to see more awesomeness from cung.